The comma before , and

by Paul Garside
24th June 2015

When I'm writing first draft, I use commas and full stops like machine gun bullets, then go back and take a hard look make changes myself before I get some editing done, (much further along, you can tell I don't edit from my punctuation in these posts)

One of the places I am forever placing a comma is before "and" my understanding is you can do it as long as the next part will stand alone without the word and.

The part I don't get is, I have been reading dickens recently and because of the "," issue I decided to take more notice, his work has the comma before "and" and "but" everywhere, the same with another book I am reading just now "The Screwtape Letters. Full of the same thing so,,,,, my question is if these great and old works have the comma and "and" have things changed or am I losing it.

Paul G

Replies

I recently read something in 'Writing' magazine about grammar, which I think sort of applies here but I can't find it at the moment and don't know if I'm allowed to quote it anyway, so I'll paraphrase: (grammatical) rules aren't really *rules*, at most the're conventions.

I think in the end both grammar and punctuation are part of your voice and style as a writer, just as much as the language you use, and if it doesn't sound or feel right to you you'll have difficulty writing. Besides, even if you get it right by one group there will be another that think you're wrong or won't like it.

Also, I do the same thing; putting in commas all over the place and ending up taking them out when I read through later.

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Oh, the endless debate of the Oxford comma. Personally, I only use a comma before an 'and' if it removes ambiguity from a sentence. For instance:

I like to buy T shirts from Hollister, Abercrombie and Fitch, and Superdry.

The comma helps to distinguish between parts of the list and the store name with an 'and' in it. And I never buy T shirts in any of those stores, but I couldn't think of another place with an 'and' in!

A comma before a 'but' is different, I think. Sometimes I will miss them out if the sentence is short and I don't feel the need for the pause, but most of the time I put them in. I'm not a huge fan of commas, but that's one place I do allow them to be most of the time.

Dickens was writing in a very different time with very different punctuation rules. I've often wondered at the number of semi-colons in earlier works and wished people weren't so anti them now. I think you have to be careful with commas because they can break up sentences too much and give the impression of disjointedness. People also use them instead of full stops causing 'run-on' sentences. (You've included one in your question btw.)

Of course, if you are writing for the American market, the rules are different again. Most Americans use the Oxford comma and think us strange for not using it.

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24/06/2015